SAF COMMISSIONS LOCALLY-BUILT SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY

last SG · 2003-11-24T22:48:01+00:00

From a technical/design stand-point (again), we can achieve, and have already fulfilled, the fundamental elements of firepower and mobility in the class of v...

gary1910 SG

Those are combat weight, that means including ammo.
The original M109A6 is 0.951kg/sq cm with 39 rounds at 28.8 tons.

CHARGE!!!

Johnston SG

Originally posted by gary1910:

Those are combat weight, that means including ammo.
The original M109A6 is 0.951kg/sq cm with 39 rounds at 28.8 tons.

[b]CHARGE!!!

[/b]

Well!
You must understand that i cannot divulge too much, nor do i profess to have been on the team that nursed Primus from idea, to prototype, to actual firing vehicle.

If i ever get the chance, i'll quiz one of my camp officers about this.

observe SG

If the numbers are that small, the per unit cost must be quite high!
Is the money spent on R&D for this project really worthwhile ?

Johnston SG

Why not ask the Soviets, who have spent HUGE amounts of money on R&D for lots of projects? Typhoon, Blackjack, the 203mm SP howitzer, and much much more?

It's not say per unit cost high or what, simple rule of buying things.
You buy just enough for your needs, and some in reserve.

After all, you dont buy 20 bags of rice for a month's food, do you?

Fairyland SG

Is the Primus a candidate for the US IBCT brigade?

If they are considering M8 as a candidate for the direct fires support vehicle then Primus may be just right?

I think they are going back on the Piranha.......maybe time to fit in the Terrex since it's in Turkey already.

Or the M113 will make a comeback?

Let's see how they perform in OIF when they get there?

observe SG

The USSR went backrupt after all that spending without giving due considerations to the economical viability all their projects.

I read somewhere once that for a combat vehicle like a APC or Tank etc, the rule of thumb is to have a requirement of around 300 to make it viable to produce them locally. Anything less is better to them from somebody else.

So from that angle, if the projected total numbers of the locally made SPH is less than 300 (for both SAF needs and for exports), it would have been more economical to buy them from somewhere else...esp if most of the requirements seems to be met by the M109 Paladin except for the width. The width of the M109 on only slightly more than 3m.

Fairyland SG

I agree! The cost of locally developing a M109 variant in Primus maybe dodgy here. Ok in the case of Bionix the numbers may justify the cost. Still I'm not so sure the M113 or local variants should be put aside in future SAF requirements.

Johnston SG

You make a very good point, but we're not most of the world.
Why should we buy 300 kgs of rice if all we need is 20 or so for the month?

Understand that even the Fh88 nor 2000 has been exported out yet. Primus has just been unveiled, it wont be exported out so soon.
And in any case, i wonder if it might even be wanted.

As it is, Russia, US and South Africa already have a glut of artillery systems. A reinvented 155/39cal SPH needs something really special for it to be viable in export. Which, so far, i dont see Primus as being really special.

Johnston SG

Originally posted by Fairyland:
[b]Is the Primus a candidate for the US IBCT brigade?

If they are considering M8 as a candidate for the direct fires support vehicle then Primus may be just right?

I think they are going back on the Piranha.......maybe time to fit in the Terrex since it's in Turkey already.

Or the M113 will make a comeback?
b]

Personally, i think the M113 is overupgraded.

M8 AGS? I thought that system was scrapped a long time ago?

Anyway, who is to say about sales? *shrugs*
Supply and demand, supply and demand.
If the US Army wants Primus, who is to say?

But i dont think so. They already have enough arty.

one35th SG

Hi,

Similar type of automatic loader in the Self propelled Howitzer

at : http://www.wd.com/m1loader.htm

Happy reading.

Regards,

Fairyland SG

From public domain.....the FH2000 'design' was exported or licensed to Turkey.

Laplace SG

I believe the M8 tank destroyer is available for procurement from United Defence Technologies. It has been tested and evaluated, now sitting on the shelf waiting for a buyer.

|-|05| SG

Nope the whole program was canned after the US army ran outta cash to fund it.

|-|05| SG

oh and the M8 is a mobile gun..not an arty system…..so it’s in a different catogoray as the Primus.

Laplace SG

http://www.uniteddefense.com/prod/lt_tank.htm

Nope, it's available. The prog was canned under the Les Aspin admin. So ... Rolling Eyes

|-|05| SG

Looks more like a product they made but nv went through with and i doubt they selling the system.

Laplace SG

I don't really understand this post...

Anyway, to many American military buffs, the Les Aspin admin was a disaster for the US armed forces. He initiated the cancellations of many projects that were deemed necessary for the US's ability to project into this century - chief among these was the USN's A22 and the army XM8.

Johnston SG

You believe.

The whole thing was scrapped so long ago, after the bugger was first profiled in Tom Clancy's Armored Cav.

Update!! Update!
Smile

Johnston SG

November Sierra!

Well, i could care more.
Turkey?
Wassat?
Where the hell is that?
Thks for the info.

Johnston SG

What he meant, was that the design was researched, a prototype made, already able to start production, but for some reason, (Who cares anyway), it's not in production.

Smile

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