SAF COMMISSIONS LOCALLY-BUILT SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY

last SG · 2003-11-24T22:48:01+00:00

From a technical/design stand-point (again), we can achieve, and have already fulfilled, the fundamental elements of firepower and mobility in the class of v...

Laplace SG

Well, he could have rephrased it into a more legible form.

But it is still available for procurement if a foreign government wants it. United Defense and other heavy industrial corporations do not mass produce and stock-keep.

Laplace SG

A forum user who discredits other's creditability in a sarcastic manner just to enhance his own, does himself disservice.

You base your argument on the book written by a techno-thriller novelist who added a disclaimer that the book was written based on his own bias and prejudice. I got mine from the official website of the contractor that made the M8 and who states that is is already tested and ready for procurement.

Go update yourself before spreading your own aspersions.

Fairyland SG

Not taking sides here......but I recall seeing a United Defense Booth in the last AA show pushing the M8 AGS.

Johnston SG

I should take this opportunity to update you about the TU-160 Blackjack "Space" variant (or something like that).

Tupolev is still pushing it, but there is not evidence about it, just mock-ups. Will investigate and come back.

And Clancy is knowlegeable, definetely more than you. Have you went along on a ride with the 160th SOAR? No. Been out in the field with Marines? No. Been on board a Nitmitz? No.
(Actually it's his researcher, John gresham.)

Johnston SG

Smile Techno-thriller novelist he may be, but he's one of the best.
I'll have you know that the Hunt For Red October was almost barred from being allowed to be published because of security concerns, until he showed that all was open source.

A simple foreword from him is worth $$$ on any one else's book.
He did come up with many unique ideas, and games. SSN, and the Rainbox 6 series.

And, by the way, there is no M8 AGS on the US Army's official book detailing current, projected, and in-development systems. Nope.

The company can carry on with the M8 if they get their jollies by doing so, just as the Alfa and A-12 Stealth bomber was. America actually using them? Time will tell.

Johnston SG

And also, incidentally, his series of "tour" books on miltary matters are recommended reading for SAF soldiers.

Novelist? Yes. But a novelist who's been there, and seen that.

Johnston SG

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m8-ags.htm

Pix of the prototype, and some further explanation.

http://www.uniteddefense.com/prod/lt_tank.htm
---???

http://www.combatreform.com/strykerprogram.htm

There, should be enough....

Fairyland SG

This reminds me of another Area 51 thingy on Pulse Wave Jet Engines which is supposedly flying somewhere over the States. Now Brahmos ramjet is old compared to this if true!

|-|05| SG

The M8 was never produced!It's more of a product that was researched and a prototype made but the project was cancelled. As for the company trying to market it to other countries i'm not too sure since it is a goverment program.The system is officially still owned by the USArmy.But since it is not classified that maybe possible.
And the A-12? John mean that SR-71 look alike???

Laplace SG

Johnston, no matter how you deny it, no matter how you praise Tom Clancy to the highest, there is no mistake that you are wrong here.

The fact is that United Defense Technologies has placed the M8 in its product catalogues and as Fairyland has pointed out, UD is actively promoting it at international arms and technology trade fairs. This can only mean that the M8 has already completed all necessary evaluation and experimental procedures/stages and only needs the foreign customer to start production lines rolling.

http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/supplement/lav/lav_m8.shtml

Just because it's potential launch client backed off at the eleventh hour does not mean the main contractor will simply shlf the entire project indefinitely.

Johnston SG

No, it's the TU160-SK variant.
And it's not a spaceplane, just rigged up to deliver a space orbiter.

Johnston SG

Correction.

US Army does not want any part of the M8 AGS, at least not around 2 years ago. They scrapped the idea much longer ago.

United defense, can, if they get their jollies by doing so, create a tank similar to C&C's Mammoth tank.

THey can promote it till hell freezes over, but where's the customer?
And i already knew that at the time of Armored Cav, M8 was at a prototype stage already, meaning to say in a pinch, they could have deployed already.

As it is, the XVIII Airborne could have used it.

dkhoo SG

The M8 Buford was fully developed and tested, approved for series production and type classified (hence M8 rather than XM8 ). The US Army field manuals for the M8 and light armor tactics had even been written and distributed to units in preparation for deployment. Then it was cancelled at the very last second to fund the war in Bosnia. Utterly retarded! Pouring all that expensive R&D effort straight down the toilet and leaving their airborne forces with no tank after the retirement of the Sheridan.

UD is ready to make the M8 at any time. All the production lines are ready, though currently disassembled and in storage. They tried to sell it to Thailand, apparently. It is a very, very nice light tank, and we should consider it as a replacement for the AMX13SM1. After working with UD on the Primus chassis, shouldn't DSTA be able to arrange something? It shouldn't take much to make the M8 suitable for local requirements as I understand them.

bcoy SG

ST is already developing a light tank. This was mentioned years back in the Straits Times, Finance section, after the launch of the Bionix. The light tank, like the Primus will use the same automotive components. (Does the Bionix use the same\similar components as the M8???)

The Primus chassis can be used to develop in mobile SAM, in my view.

dkhoo SG

The Primus and the Bionix both have the same transmission as the M8 Buford (GD HMPT-500EC). The Primus has the same engine as the M8 Buford (Detroit Diesel 6V-921A 550hp) and the Bionix has a similar, lower horsepower version (Detroit Diesel 6V-92TA 475hp). The suspension for the Bionix and M8 Buford are both hydropneumatic strut systems, and are the running gear in general are very similar. In fact, I have long suspected that the Bionix was developed with assistance from UD based on experience with the M8, especially since the 25mm autocannon is the same Bushmaster in the M2 Bradley, another UD vehicle.

Knowing MINDEF, they will want the light tank to have the same engine and/or transmission as well, to make battlefield repairs and logistics easier. So, I would not be surprised if we got a little bit of help from UD again for the light tank, or if we even adopt a modified M8 Buford. Heck, the M8 is narrower than the "magic" 3m width that MINDEF seems to want all our armored vehicles to conform to, and only 25 tons with maximum armor.

Johnston SG

We already have a tank of some sort. Saw it at AOH 2002, but didnt really notice it.

Bionix using same components as M8? Unlikely, to say the least.
The Primus chassis can be used to develop any thing. IFV, SAM, SPAAG, heck even a CP.
Just look at all the variants of M113.

bcoy SG

As others have pointed out - there are similar automotive components used. AOH? the AMX13 and AMX10 - 90mm? old news.

Fairyland SG

AMX10P from what I gather is a failure out of water........ Laughing
Engine tends to overheat and loose power Sad

Funny though...... the way they (AMX10P) came about. Any inputs here? Don't seem to be heading in any direction. Are they still around though?

If not wrong, ST don't own the design to Primus chassis. Can't see it going anywhere as far as SAF is concern.

Whatever the future light tank maybe, it makes sense to share the same drive train found in Ultra and Bionix which makes M8 a serious contender though I'm not impressed with the gun turret design.

Ruag 120mm seems better.

warspite SG

Well, you are right on the problems for AMX-10P.

BTW, they are still around, somewhere in the west of Singapore.... Wink

Atobe SG

Quite a few clear photos of the PRIMUS in the December 2003 edition of the PIONEER magazine.

The following webpage shows the unit operating it, as well as details of the PRIMUS already released, with one photo in the print edition not shown on the web page.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/cyberpioneer/setweapon.html

Interesting 3min 50 sec video of the PRIMUS is available on this web site:

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/weapons/sph/multimedia.asp

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