SAF COMMISSIONS LOCALLY-BUILT SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY

last SG · 2003-11-24T22:48:01+00:00

From a technical/design stand-point (again), we can achieve, and have already fulfilled, the fundamental elements of firepower and mobility in the class of v...

damienthedevil SG

There will be a total of 54 Primus each forming three 18 SP gun regiments, currently the first will be part of the independent armoured brigade. The other two which is being formed wil be with the new mechanised armour division.

The Primus chasis is based on the Paladin and the Bradley.

The AMX13S1 replacement will be a Bionix with a 120 smoothbore gun with autoloading capability ( Yes it is the M8 turret, the technology transferred from UD )

gary1910 SG

You are releasing info that are still not available in open domain I think.....

"damienthedevil" you could edit your , as I have already edited mine.
CHARGE!!!

Fairyland SG

For the AMX13-SM1 replacement, if I remember correctly, the turret can only carry 8 rounds (that's for the 105mm) and once expended......crew has to climb out to re-load?

Sorry wrong gun! More info on the XM8 here:
http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2001/10/airborne_armor/print.phtml

Seems the autoloader (derived from a naval gun mount!) is the best feature - separated from crew with bulkhead carrying 21rounds!!! Surprised Gun has to return to zero elevation to be re-loaded.

What is the slew rate of the turret? All electric drive? Tank commander position will be lower and he will not be able to gain any advantage by sticking his head out anymore........so the battle management system will give him the tactical picture?

Joe Black SG

I hope they have also added a hunter-killer capability, plus a good active defensive suite and reactive armour to the chassis.

gary1910 SG

Any1 here know the effective range of the smoothbore 120mm L50 gun?
In gulf war 1, the western tank havng range 3-4 km , destroy most T-72s at that range becos the T-72s gun range is only slightly above 2 km.

If our new light tank with 120mm gun is true, then I think delay of the whole project was due to purchase of PT-91s by MY.

The project started with 105mm gun then later reworked the whole concept with 120mm gun.

CHARGE!!!

spencer99 SG

Originally posted by gary1910:
Any1 here know the effective range of the smoothbore 120mm L50 gun?
In gulf war 1, the western tank havng range 3-4 km , destroy most T-72s at that range becos the T-72s gun range is only slightly above 2 km.

If our new light tank with 120mm gun is true, then I think delay of the whole project was due to purchase of PT-91s by MY.

The project started with 105mm gun then later reworked the whole concept with 120mm gun.

[b]CHARGE!!!

[/b]

Also need a good Fire Control System and Optics to actually "touch" another tank 3-4 km away. The M1 's FCS is much better that the T-72s'. That is why the T72s were all slaughtered!

eurofighter SG

Most of the fighting may be done in jungles and urban areas after all. So the range of the gun will not be really a true advantage.

gary1910 SG

True, it depend on the terrain, but advantage none the less.
For example , give longer range fire support etc. But since it is a low recoil gun, I am afraid the range might be lower than other 120mm gun, that is why I asked.

One thing abt the L50, it could use all the standard Nato rounds, and I heard it capability should be somewhere between L44 to L55. No sure what it means.

CHARGE!!!

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Our new tank needs to be stealthy, compatable with the rest of our forces, have enough protection to survive most infantry AT fire, highly mobile, and pack enough firepower to destroy MBTs from the front. Maybe mounting ATGMS on it is not such a bad idea.

21Alpha SG

damienthedevil, I think that was over the line...what you have mentioned is still all classified...please don't answer gary1910's query...

Mods, I think it would be safer delete all mentioned.

Paladin SG

For anyone who is interested about the M8

http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/lighttanks.htm

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Nah dun worry about, he hasn’t said anything that isn’t on public domain, and the light tank thingie… it appears to be pure speculation on his part, abbet presented in a factual tone…

rancour5 SG

Certainly hope we wont be disappointed by the light tank but dont think we will be using the bionix hull though. I think it is still too small.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

I think it's too big. A light tank wun need to have all the internal space that the Bionix has for carrying troops, could cut that and lower the profile by a lot. It won't hurt to make this tank stealthy (ST did this with the Terrax) and run on band tracks though... since it has to be under 30 tons.

rancour5 SG

The thing is the troop area is very small, if you have taken the Bx outfield before, the space is even more cramped than the ultra. I doubt even if you take away the troop area. There will be sufficlent space to put the ammo and the 120mm turret.

gary1910 SG

I think if you stretched out the Bionix by by a additional road wheel, lower the profile a little, it could actually handle a turret like the Primus.

As for the gun, the L50 120mm low recoil gun is perfect. It was designed to be handled I think a AFV of above 25tons, therefore it will meet our spec perfectly.

CHARGE!!!

Fairyland SG

Ok, here's my BIG question -

Is it more cost effective, acquisition and life cycle wise, to get the M8 wholesale OR

Integrate the turret onto a Bionix?

Seems to me with the M8 you have most things working, tested and qualified for ops.

Bionix probably needs some costly integration work to be done(or is it done already?).........

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Of course it's more cramped then the Ultra, it is an IFV for goodness sakes. The M113 series has above normal internal space for any APC, and it's not something you should take for granted. IFVs have far less internal space.

There is more then sufficent space to put the ammo and 120mm turret, the Thunderbolt hull(AGS with 120mm gun) is lower, and smaller then the Bx after all.

Fairyland SG

How do you squeeze gunner and commander in the turret since at least half of it will be occupied by the autoloader?

Are they sitting one in front of the other? Or is the gunner located below the commander in the hull?

I think buying the Thunderbolt is more cost effective. Tactically it has lower profile. Armor wise I don't know. But assume the engine can handle more applique if required.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

What do you mean? In most cases the gunner sits lower in front of the commander, since when was an autoloader a problem?

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