DSTO : Decision on Fighter jets for RASF soon

last SG · 2003-03-28T20:07:42+00:00

If mindef will to aqquire the F-16C/D Bk 60 , i have nth to say but , pure stupid. No one with military knowlegde will ever support the fact that an Airforc...

duotiga83 SG

sorrie trainner i gotta tell F-15 will not win…the risk is 2 big , my reason is above.

foxtrout8 SG

Walau eh....

It seems to be like a choice of sheer likings than one with regards of specification and reasons..........

trainner SG

what if the F-15 win?
what you think doesnt mean thats what mindef thinks

duotiga83 SG

ok...can u tell mi in near future how does the F-15 can b upgraded since it is already THAT adv in my opionon.

F-15 is a great plane..indeed, but is consider 'old', if it wins,is the same situation as wad the koreans did i cld say

think bout it

trainner SG

The F-16 and Su-27/30 are also old.
maybe we will be pressured by the US to buy the F-15 just like the S. Koreans.
And we will get the great F-15

duotiga83 SG

u haven't ans my sec part of my question...How to upgrade the F-15T in near future? ur comments?

don't just go buy the planes u like, c other ppl's views, analyse, research, thenu will know wads i am talking about Wink

if i go the same as u , my like of plane in this compettion: F-15T, F-16 bk 60, typhoon n rafale, does it mean rsaf will buy all the planes i like? Wink

trainner SG

Upgrade to F-15ACTIVE?

duotiga83 SG

F-15T proposal by Boeing

FYI upgrade to F-15ACTIVE means that the gun will b removed, do u wan that? how bout avionics wise?

trainner SG

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/f15/f-15k/f15kfaq.htm

In fact, the Air Force has a defined upgrade program to modernize the F-15E and sustain it as a frontline combat aircraft through 2030 and beyond. The Republic of Korea would have access to U.S. Air Force-developed upgrades for its F-15Ks.

Stated by Boeing that the F-15E/K/T will be upgraded- But not stated what kind of upgrades.

If I could get F-15ACTIVE with TVC, I wouldnt mind throwing away the gun.

duotiga83 SG

the koerans radar is in v1 therefore can b upgraded to v3 near future which is possible, ours on the other hand is selected v3 radar as the proposal, would b diffcult to have another level of upgrade unless ST upgrade the eagles locally, to another level of AESA radar. as for f-15active, the demostrator plane, i would b surprise if ST Aero upgraded the F-15T (selected IF) to part active(wif carnards) with/or tvc engine to counter the Su-30MKM.

trainner SG

maybe boeing is developing a v4/5/6/7 radar in a few years time.
when you upgrade a plane, it doesnt just have to be the radar.

duotiga83 SG

i'm taking radar as an eg, u r saying upgrade to f-15active type is structural upgrade, i know there are many ways of upgrade i can't deny, but i dun c the eagle have any potential growth in upgrading it which ST Aero often tend to do wif our planes( deja vu of F-16ONE? which i most scared of if eagle is selected).

Frankly speaking, i hardly hear of RoKAF having their planes upgraded, the most is they bought another 'Blocks' of upgraded plane, which is totally different from our situation.

paulho SG

You missed the point. Doesn't matter what aircraft we buy or don't buy, important is we get something that works and works to our advantage.

Would you yourself pay good 4-5k for a personal PC with top of the line graphics card, memory, state of the art CPU processor, large hardrive but whenever it runs crashes every now and then? I rest my case.

Likewise in this case why shud we pay US$70million for something mebbe it's not battle-tested yet but at least shud work but fails during trials.

The F-15 older aircraft from the 80's but it is battle proven, if it was crap would the US forces still rely on it even today, would the israeli's have used it as protection escorts for their F-16's when they bombed the Osiris in iraq bearing in mind at that time the F-16 was still a baby compared to the F-15?

The eurofighter may sport all the top of the line avionics - cool but it doesn't fly. if it is so wonderful how come the british no confidence to use it in this war theatre in iraq hmm?

Your opnions on the eurofighter may hold water bt my reservation is that I wouldn't want to depend on an aircraft that "maybe" works if ever there was a conflict in this region.

paulho SG

Did you noe that your R-77 missle only able to manevour in a 12G preassure variance? Mebbe it out range the Amramm, cool but that's not everything in a dogfight.

The python-4 on other hand, mebbe shorter range abt 5.5km but with 120 degree look down radar and very fast, it is all aspect missle meaning it don't need to acquire the heat from the target exhaust tailpipe. the seeker head is highly resistant to counter measures uses up to 3 different wave band and can withstand up to 70G of preassure better than the american AIM-9M which only able to handle 35G.

Best of all there is a special sighting helmet which the pilot wears which can further guide the missle along to it's target.

Incidently I read this from a report that for the R-77 the russians have been having all sorts of design and production problems and Malaysia will be the first country to field it ... how come the russians not the first one to field it but the Malaysians?

foxtrout8 SG

Because of one crash in eight year of development and u state that the Typhoon is unreliable??? I think this is a joke.

The fighter is going to replace our A-4SU , thus logic will tell u that the next fighter will be the cream of ATG. The F-15E/k/T do give a reasonable punch ,however will US release the equippment for us for that punch....? No , i dun think so. The next fighter i can think so which can Mud move is the Typhoon. A typical stike mission with 18 Brimstone , 4 Amraam and 2 Asraam can deliver hell to our enemy. Y not a mission with 2 storm shadows , 4 Amraam and 2 Asraam??? We can penerate Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta

My logic is not abt specs , but is that if we buy any fighter outside US ( maybe Rafale or SU-30 ) we are entitled to weapons classes which US will not be game to sell. Combat proven is not an important issue. Rafale and SU-30 isnt realli combat proven doesnt mean they are inferior to the F-15 because they havent have a fighting chance to prove themselves.

One havent have the chance to prove themselve , doesnt mean they dun have the capability to exel. SImple logic , think over it.

foxtrout8 SG

Y tok abt Python when our F-16 will get it and maybe Asraam for EuroTyphoon...

Y bother abt Gs when the R-77 are built to engage Amraam carrying aircraft first......

Y bother toking abt Amraam when it is still in US while malaysia have their R-77 ( rusting a not is another issue ) under their branket??

*disclaim> i didnt state that R-77 carrying aircraft will win Amraam carrying aircraft , i onli state that they are build to do so.

observe SG

you're are not comparing apple with apple.....the equivalent of python-4 is the russian R-73E. The equivalent of AMRAAM is the russian R-77.

If you have read the Feb issue of the Asia-Pacific Defence Reporter, there is an article of the SU....somewhere in it the writer says that all computer simulated fights between SU-30 and F15 results in SU being victorious at bvr. He says that SU will be able to fire 2 R-77 first before the F15 can react. The standard tactic would be to fire 2 R-77, and then turn 90 degrees so that the SU will 'disapper' from the F15 doppler radar. This sim result unnerved the US pilots coz they effectively got no response to the SU at BVR.
Incidently, he also mentioned that similar tactic was practised by RMAF pilots against the RAAF pilots in their 'dogfights'. The result was RMAF sweeping the RAAF clean.

EXCO SG

Foxtrout8, The Typhoon is not designed in mind to be a ATG platform. It is designed primarily to be a fighter and thats where it will perform best. Substantial ATG capability on the Typhoon will come later and god knows when that will happen. I will go with the Rafale on the "best multirole" category.

Paulho, good arguments, but I have to question where did you get the information in "600 Pythons" for RSAF. It is not proven that RMAF "fields" R-77s as well.

foxtrout8 SG

Typhoon is a multi-role fighter but primaried on ATA , no doubts abt that.

Can u find another 4th generation fighter with parellel payload as the the Typhoon on ATG ??? Thats y i say it is a cream of ATG which doesnt mean it is a ATG designed plane.

paulho SG

The info on RMAF being the first R-77 user is quite old, read it from a journal last year on types equipment used by China Military, one section on missles mentions that RMAF will be first user for R-77. Incidently it also mentions that apart from china & chile, singapore also an operator for pythons.

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