pay S$20.00 in order to do local volunteer work @ Redhill

last SG · 2008-04-22T10:31:15+00:00

... Taxes may be HIGHER in other countries, but you WILL get what you pay for...... here in SG, they now tell us work beyond 85 and save (pay them money) ti...

Gensis SG

pls la zaxis. i really laugh when i see your posts. u are trying very hard to make a big fool of yourself

see oredi also disgusted with you. *PUI PUI PUI* plus step on u

eagle SG

let sky keep them "read in hokkien"

lucky have me inside their data base, now other VWO will know their wrong doing.

if without the man who repair NKF toilet, who would know NKF has golden water tap.

best wan bao and sunday time all will be reporting the "Paid to be volunteer"

"Omy.com also has this topic"

still waiting to read their fiancial report!

how many house they had build?

how many has start re-payment?

where re-payment money?

how many companies had paid to join them? donate to them? claim double tax deduction?

If you are still so concerned, I'm repeating the following again:

The solution is simple. You can simply write a letter directly to the organisation to ask for a breakdown of the costs instead of whining here.

Or do you still prefer to be the

You are one that talks a lot but do nothing.

And it seems you like to draw parallels with very unrelated events. The gold tap is a unnecessary and luxurious installment. I fail to see how, from the accounting of how the $20 from the volunteers will be spent, that the expenditure here is both unnecessary and luxurious.

The more you post, the more you seem to me to have a motive of intentionally trying to disrupt community service provided for these old folks now. Even if that isn't your true intention, you are still indirectly responsible for trying to bring about it (seen from your posts to very much wanting the newspaper to report on this). You better believe in karma.

zaxis SG

good, let see if charity portal interest or already looking into H4Hsg account.

Ren Ci hospital fund raised money for buying brick but later used for buying tier,

their IPC status also stopped.

you may laugh at me now,

i am just doing my part disclosing H4Hsg "in-correct" doing.

my intention is very simple.

centralise

go see yourself king george ave senior activity centre.

they centrelise their dry ration storage, their register SAC member can get what they want from the centrelise kitchen storage room on top of their daily S$0.50 hot cook lunch.

when ever those people who need to do dry food distribution, after the giving cermoni, all member return their share to the kitchen. member may take what they need from those bags of dry ration, balance all centrelise store in KGA SAC.

and this is also share H4Hsg @ Redhill, if they think need S$20.00 to do volunteer.

It is better to look for those rich people who got money but no time, think joining the group, by paying S$20.00 some other volunteer will do their portion. even if cleaning job not complete, they also call it a day. importance is remember to remind them to look good in front of camera.

eagle SG

good, let see if charity portal interest or already looking into H4Hsg account.

Ren Ci hospital fund raised money for buying brick but later used for buying tier,

their IPC status also stopped.

you may laugh at me now,

i am just doing my part disclosing H4Hsg "in-correct" doing.

my intention is very simple.

centralise

go see yourself king george ave senior activity centre.

they centrelise their dry ration storage, their register SAC member can get what they want from the centrelise kitchen storage room on top of their daily S$0.50 hot cook lunch.

and this is also share H4Hsg @ Redhill, if they think need S$20.00 to do volunteer.

In this thread alone you have displayed

1) your "waiting for others to do" mentality
2) your high propensity to transfer responsibility and blame
3) your total disregard to the volunteers
4) your whining attitude with no guts to contact HFH directly
5) your easy comparisons in a illogical manner
6) your cowardice by hiding behind an online nick to whine in a forum

You asked for transparency for the $20, you were given. Then you attacked how it could be better spent, and not how it wasn't properly accounted for. The point here is that you were told how the $20 was spent. The point is not how it could have been better spent. Yes, they could do other methods as you suggested to reduce the $20. Fact is, they did not. But, whether the organisation is efficient a not, is totally different from whether they took in the $20 for themselves. Somehow, you just want to link these two together, and then proclaimed loudly that it is a wrong-doing on their part (when you raised that their financial account should be looked into). For what motives, only you would know.

You might also have indirectly brought about less care for the poor old folks. Remember, what goes around comes around.

In addition, you have also levied corruption and wrongdoing charges based solely on factors that they could have improved on, and none on inappropriate and illegal stuff that they have done. The examples you have raised so far were comparisons between inappropriate behaviour (gold tap) vs inefficient organising (could have gotten free food, etc). Probably that's why you have to hide behind an online nick, because if you were to go out there to say all those you have said, you will be most likely sued for slander.

zaxis SG

same to you

what goes around will be back to you too.

profit making from needy elderly is what you think no other people will do other then you

praying hard charity portal to look into H4Hsg account.

just wait for worm out from H4Hsg can.

how you know i hide behind, how you know i did not talk openly to media? Charity portal office? NVPC? CNA?

you must have forgotten i am @ Singapore Buddhist Lodges today 4 secondary busary award session,

this event media coverage.

how you know i did not cover this too?

eagle SG

same to you

what goes around will be back to you too.

profit making from needy elderly is what you think no other people will do other then you

praying hard charity portal to look into H4Hsg account.

just wait for worm out from H4Hsg can.

how you know i hide behind, how you know i did not talk openly to media? Charity portal office? NVPC? CNA?

you must have forgotten i am @ Singapore Buddhist Lodges today 4 secondary busary award session,

this event media coverage.

how you know i did not cover this too?

They profit? So now you are just aimlessly shooting claims without any basic proof?

You hide behind. Simple. Many of the questions, you can direct it straight to HFH. But nah, you prefer to whine here instead. I do dare you to say all those you have said to the media, word for word, and see if you will get sued for slandering.

Remember, you are charging HFH for profitting based on things that they could have done to reduce costs (inefficiency), and not inappropriate and illegal things they have done.

Of course, if you have evidence that they are doing things like installation of gold taps in their toilets, then I will stand by your side. Till then, you are just basically making false linkages, and indirectly influencing potential volunteers not to help these old folks. Yes, what goes around comes around.

cyberr1981 SG

Ok I got a reply from HFH

1) The T-shirt is unnecessary. Why cannot issue something cheaper or re-usable to identify? Are there really so many willing volunteer to identify?? And what morale purpose, care to clarify? What is the morale purpose of wearing a t-shirt when those are WILLING volunteers??

2) People are already volunteering, can't the org be generous enough to at least treat them to lunch? Not very nice to charge money for lunch of volunteers, you know.

3) Donations from corporations and donors should be enough to cover equipment. Since there is a steady flow of donations, why is there a need to charge money from volunteers?

cyberr1981 SG

Till then, you are just basically making false linkages, and indirectly influencing potential volunteers not to help these old folks. Yes, what goes around comes around.

Forumers are making deductions and various point of views. You seemed to only expect positive and supportive opinions which is impossible in a forum. Any comments probing, you fired at the forumer.

So far, all the points discussed are possible and reasonable. Since the NKF saga, you can't expect people to continue to donate blindly, without asking.

Even the government are encouraging people to raise questions of a charity they find suspicious, so why are you faulting forumers on this?

PS: And, don't keep on using karma to "threaten" or "blackmail" people. Kindness can be done in everyday life to people around us, not necessarily we have to donate money or volunteer to charity.

cyberr1981 SG

After all, don't volunteers for overseas projects have to pay a few hundred dollars for their volunteerism? So how? They should go for free?

Is the payment of a few hundred dollars accountable?

State reasons and supportings.

ShrodingersCat SG

actually i don't find it unreasonable to question the doings of VWOs and their accountability. I find it healthy and good.

what I do find questionable is ...

the expectation that money should be raised by someone else while 'volunteering' can be done by the individual.

and to carry this further - if the money is raised by someone else ALREADY, the individual SHOULD NOT need to contribute - the point being that an individual should contribute when and if he feels something is worthwhile to give money to - not to feel that as long as someone else is giving money, why should I?

and that the government is solely responsible for its peoples welfare - considering that the govt SHOULD be made up by the people and if you take for granted that simply becos one party had been in govt for a long time, the citizen only has the responsibility to accuse and not assert - then I think the citizen is a big cause for such a government. You can't blame the govt when most people only know how to criticise and don't want to do real work.

If everyone has this point of view, donation, governance, responsibility will ALWAYS be left to someone else because you feel that you yourself as part of the macro picture that makes up all singaporeans have no liability towards making this society work.

The problem with pointing fingers at a job badly done is that... you affect people who are actually TRYING to get the job done. (even though some do it really badly), without actually encouraging or asserting anyone to get the job done BETTER. It is really not constructive and while the same critical people keep on talking about how one should help the old, the needy, the disabled in a much BETTER way - it is only if someone gets out to do it, that it is ACTUALLY done.

Else... better someone being 40% productive than no one doing anything at all.

Thus, my question is - why stop at the accusations? It isn't enough.

But of course, we will have armchair critics who feel that their opinions is the best thing they have that is valuable but not their effort.

redDUST SG

2) People are already volunteering, can't the org be generous enough to at least treat them to lunch? Not very nice to charge money for lunch of volunteers, you know.

3) Donations from corporations and donors should be enough to cover equipment. Since there is a steady flow of donations, why is there a need to charge money from volunteers?

t-shirts and peripheral stuff are unnecessary. t-shirt can be sponsored in whole by corporate sponsors if a charitable organization wants to look good. `donating' or `paying' for the t-shirt do not directly benefits the final/intended recipient of the charitable organization is clearly not right. if i was told to buy a t-shirt and the nett proceeds goes to the needy, i will consider, but if i were to pay so i can be `identified' or help create visibility to the organization, then i think it is a load of bull.

lunch and paints, nails, etc. all should be part of the operation costs that is built in to run the activities. otherwise, why don't they `charge' for the paint brush, nails, hammer, sand paper, etc.? it is ludicrous to even `charge' for it as you implied in pt.3.

if all the above are the reasons for the monies that is levied, the organization is either very ineffective or there's something shady going on. today, the spirit of giving should still be done in good faith, but we all need to be `smarter donor' so we are not taken for a ride. unfortunately in singapore, there are (still）many of such organizations that `prey' on the people's good heart.

cyberr1981 SG

I also wonder, how much salary did this Mr Yong (director) draw each year?

Did he travel First Class too, like TT Durian?

cyberr1981 SG

unfortunately in singapore, there are (still）many of such organizations that `prey' on the people's good heart.

It's SUPER easy to make use of kindness as excuse and abuse karma as an "emotional blackmail".

see my examples:

1) "What goes round comes around, so better donate now!"

2) "By donating, you accumulate good karma for a better life. Better donate!!"

3) "Be kind, have a good heart, see how pitiful they are, so you better donate!"

redDUST SG

It's SUPER easy to make use of kindness as excuse and abuse karma as an "emotional blackmail".

see my examples:

1) "What goes round comes around, so better donate now!"

2) "By donating, you accumulate good karma for a better life. Better donate!!"

3) "Be kind, have a good heart, see how pitiful they are, so you better donate!"

it is funny you should mentioned it. i recently donated a sum of money to the kwan-in welfare society(kwc). i think they are one of the more obscure charitable organizations around. they had sent unsolicited mail to my mailbox. when they acknowledged my donation, they sent me a receipt with a small note that says "a benevolent family will be blessed". i have to admit that i `feel good' receiving that note altho' i am not expecting anything. a form of emotional blackmail?

i donate to about 5 charitables on a regular basis but this is the first one that sends a note with the receipt. will i be inclined to donate again to kwc in future? very likely because of their gesture.

eagle SG

2) People are already volunteering, can't the org be generous enough to at least treat them to lunch? Not very nice to charge money for lunch of volunteers, you know.

3) Donations from corporations and donors should be enough to cover equipment. Since there is a steady flow of donations, why is there a need to charge money from volunteers?

Obviously you have not read properly the posts after that.

The point is not about inefficiency and generosity here now. The point is about whether the $20 has been accounted for. You tell me yourself. Has it been accounted for?

I'm sure you will explain, afterall, you were the one who challenged another forumer

Is the payment of a few hundred dollars accountable?

Why don't you question too those churches why couldn't they have paid for their volunteers' trips as well since they are also doing charity?

eagle SG

Forumers are making deductions and various point of views. You seemed to only expect positive and supportive opinions which is impossible in a forum. Any comments probing, you fired at the forumer.

So far, all the points discussed are possible and reasonable. Since the NKF saga, you can't expect people to continue to donate blindly, without asking.

Even the government are encouraging people to raise questions of a charity they find suspicious, so why are you faulting forumers on this?

PS: And, don't keep on using karma to "threaten" or "blackmail" people. Kindness can be done in everyday life to people around us, not necessarily we have to donate money or volunteer to charity.

Allow me to repeat my charge on TS

Remember, you are charging HFH for profitting based on things that they could have done to reduce costs (inefficiency), and not inappropriate and illegal things they have done.

Please explain how the deduction by TS was reasonable. I'm not saying now the points raised are not possible. As you should have read too, I have come to a conclusion with HyperFocal that both parties will have different views.

I'm disagreeing with the irresponsible and unfair deduction that TS is making.

Let me give you my example. Imagine you are doing an event for your company, and you made every participant pay $10 for t-shirts and food. Then people declare that you should have done this and that to reduce the $10 payment. Then finally, they charge your for embezzling funds for yourself based on that "should have done this should have done that". Now you tell me is this deduction on you fair and responsible? This is exactly similar to what TS is doing.

Also, this is not kindness at all. This will, as Uncle Ver Sg has said, indirectly influence volunteers not go volunteer their service for these poor old folks. You tell me whether his unreasonable (unless you can explain how it is reasonable) conclusion will affect these old folks. Yes, what goes around comes around. And I'm talking about making slanderous remarks instead of fair and responsible comments to affect operations.

With all these stated, are you sure you still want to support TS in his conclusion?

eagle SG

I also wonder, how much salary did this Mr Yong (director) draw each year?

Did he travel First Class too, like TT Durian?

So why are you asking me? Go ahead and email them to ask.

Or are also one that will only whine here? I have queries about accountability, so I emailed. If you have questions, you should contact them too.

eagle SG

It's SUPER easy to make use of kindness as excuse and abuse karma as an "emotional blackmail".

see my examples:

1) "What goes round comes around, so better donate now!"

2) "By donating, you accumulate good karma for a better life. Better donate!!"

3) "Be kind, have a good heart, see how pitiful they are, so you better donate!"

Your examples are different from TS who stated that HFH is

profit making from needy elderly

Making accusations without proof and proper deductions is tantamount to slandering, and will likely indirectly affect help for these old folks.

And you are doing exactly what TS is doing now. Comparisons with unrelated things.

Example:
Comparing the installation of gold taps (inappropriate behaviour) vs the $20 required for shirt, food and accessories (inefficiency), then concluding HFH is profit making just like NKF

Hello Kitty SG

sum ppl's blains r beri tiny.

u tell dem wt oso no use de.

becoz canot fit anyting in it le.

Uncle Ver SG SG

Let the "market" decide lah...If people are willing to pay $20 and volunteer then ok loh. If HFH books got anything funny, we can trust the PAP to do something about it - like find an Ah Neh to be the MAJOR scapegoat.

« Previous Page Next Page »