find ns a waste of time

last SG · 2003-04-25T20:57:21+00:00

so when u going nS?? poly student???

mfscrewu SG

In all armed forces around the world, soldiers are required to do area cleaning. It is to instill discipline, foster responsibility as well as to get the soldier to have the habit of keeping his own surroundings clean. The obvious reason being hygiene. Even in a battlefield HQ or resting area, resting soldiers are still required to do area cleaning due to the fact that it is simply a waste of human resources by employing a dedicated company or more cleaners to perform cleaning duties when they can be better utilised as a fighting force.

Two years is enough for a minimum oversea degree, but the two years of friendship through NS bonding is something you can't get anywhere. From what I know, area cleaning nowadays is a lot less given the fact that outside contractors are brought in to clean up less sensitive areas in the camp. The cleanliness of the bunk is the responsibility of the soldiers. If a soldier is not responsible for his bunk, then how can it be shown that he will be responsible for his action as well as for his own weapons and equipment in operational times?

A soldier is meant to obey orders. If a soldier questioned about the order of area cleaning, what about if the order to charge a MG position in time of war? Do you think that soldier (the same one who questioned the order of area cleaning) won't question the order to charge the MG position, and he can simply just sit down and said he won't do it. If that soldier happens to be under my command, I will personally shoot him in his big fat head.

Mindef have the responsibilty to your parents, so if someone should fall sick due to his refusal to do area cleaning, how do you expect Mindef to explain to his parents?

"We regretted to inform you that your son is ill due to his refusal to do area cleaning to maintain his bunk area. Due to the fact that this is a thinking army where it is not against regulation not to follow orders and there is nothing we can do about it."

If you expect this sort of reason, it will be a laughing stock of SAF. The responsibility of SAF is to provide its soldiers with area cleaning equipments for regular maintenance.

Area cleaning is no fun, but it is part and parcel of a soldiers daily routine, so take it in one's stride. Living in a camp is a lot different than living at home where one's mother will take care of the house and her son's living quarters. Don't expect and assume there will always be someone to take care of your living quarters.

NathanG5 SG

quite amazing after so many years NS is around..there r still pple who dun understand the important of it...complain tis complain tat..
somemore can question whether bunk cleaning is our responsibility..i guess u dun clean up ur room one eh? or ur mum do it for u?
yah yah..some of u guys may think we r bullshitting...if u think NS is a waste of time..den go ahead think tat way..
im still glad tat i didnt miss my NS by kenging my way thru..n i noe a bunch of CB frens..who u understand better den ur own brudder..who u go chiong sian char bor n go niteclub together..n when u kena confine will buy food for u during weekend.. n most importantly...they r there for u when ur down.. Smile

CX SG

WAH! what nonsense!

going by that logic, why bother throwing things in dustbins? government put them there without asking us what... so its THEIR problem, not ours... at most rats and cockroaches infest the streets and spread diseases only what...

in the same way, can just cross the road anywhere lah... why bother crossing at the zebra crossings? we never asked for it to be put there... at most cars run us over only what...

frankly, if an intelligent young man is able to strike out on his own and get his overseas degree in 2 years, why can't he clean up his own area?

if there's ONE thing many people my age are lacking, is the simple respect and consideration for his fellow man and goddamn HUMILITY.

smart enough to get a degree, but not smart enough to take care of himself and his living surroundings... SMART!!! Twisted Evil

10cm SG

CORRECT. So please wake up.

I pity you, obedient soldier.

P.S.: You are probably a cadet officer or at most a newly passed-out officer from some conversion course. Am I right?

10cm SG

quote:
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Originally posted by mfscrewu:

In all armed forces around the world, soldiers are required to do area cleaning. It is to instill discipline, foster responsibility as well as to get the soldier to have the habit of keeping his own surroundings clean. The obvious reason being hygiene. Even in a battlefield HQ or resting area, resting soldiers are still required to do area cleaning due to the fact that it is simply a waste of human resources by employing a dedicated company or more cleaners to perform cleaning duties when they can be better utilised as a fighting force.

SEE your specialists' bunk, my dear friend.

Two years is enough for a minimum oversea degree, but the two years of friendship through NS bonding is something you can't get anywhere. From what I know, area cleaning nowadays is a lot less given the fact that outside contractors are brought in to clean up less sensitive areas in the camp. The cleanliness of the bunk is the responsibility of the soldiers. If a soldier is not responsible for his bunk, then how can it be shown that he will be responsible for his action as well as for his own weapons and equipment in operational times?

[color=darkred]Would anybody have a sense of belonging to the toilet he is cleaning? [/color]

A soldier is meant to obey orders. If a soldier questioned about the order of area cleaning, what about if the order to charge a MG position in time of war? Do you think that soldier (the same one who questioned the order of area cleaning) won't question the order to charge the MG position, and he can simply just sit down and said he won't do it. If that soldier happens to be under my command, I will personally shoot him in his big fat head.

HAHAHA. Are your going to shoot the MG gunner with your M16?

Mindef have the responsibilty to your parents, so if someone should fall sick due to his refusal to do area cleaning, how do you expect Mindef to explain to his parents?

HUH? I didn't know your mum will complain to MINDEF when u fall sick.

"We regretted to inform you that your son is ill due to his refusal to do area cleaning to maintain his bunk area. Due to the fact that this is a thinking army where it is not against regulation not to follow orders and there is nothing we can do about it."

[color=#444444]Hmm... don't tell me you have never given extras to disobedient soldiers? [/color]

If you expect this sort of reason, it will be a laughing stock of SAF. The responsibility of SAF is to provide its soldiers with area cleaning equipments for regular maintenance.

CORRECT. The key phrase is "to provide its soldiers". Not the other way round. We are not supposed to clean up toliets used by other superior beings (we all know WHO are they) since everybody has the responsbility to maintain the common area CLEAN.

Area cleaning is no fun, but it is part and parcel of a soldiers daily routine, so take it in one's stride. Living in a camp is a lot different than living at home where one's mother will take care of the house and her son's living quarters. Don't expect and assume there will always be someone to take care of your living quarters.
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CORRECT. So please wake up.

I pity you, obedient soldier.

P.S.: You are probably a cadet officer or at most a newly passed-out officer from some conversion course. Am I right?

Shotgun SG

aiya, area cleaning is part n parcel of regimentation. Teaches recruits to live a regimented life, where each person does his/her part to help the platoon abide by the standards set. There nothing more to that.

Just that sometimes, the spec's don't set a good example by tidying their own bunks, at the same times, imposing unreasonable standards on us. That i feel is very f-ed up.

CX SG

SEE your specialists' bunk, my dear friend.

hey, not always true lah... now that i'm outta there, hindsight allows me more objectivity lah...

true, specs bunk sometimes quite bad shape, but specs are humans too... they DO clean up... who likes to live in a pig-sty???

2 reasons to clean up lah... (a) RSM inspection (b) when its really bad...

one of the specs in my coy known to have bad sinus problem one... if the place is dirty, he will be sneezing non-stop... so his bunk-mates do care and help him out... its only human... how can u sabo your friends? thats why NS teaches u to get along with the people around you and be considerate to other people's needs.

Would anybody have a sense of belonging to the toilet he is cleaning?

actually, YES... it gets immensely territorial... u use it, u clean it. its a chore, but everybody likes to use a clean toilet what!

and when YOU clean a toilet, u don't allow anybody else to use it... its a known trick... after u clean your floor's toilet, u use other floor's one until the inspection is over and sometimes, there'll be people shoo-ing u away from their toilets... i've seen it so many times...

HAHAHA. Are your going to shoot the MG gunner with your M16?

aiya, don't talk about shooting your own people lah... i don't agree with many orcifer's nonsense also... u follow instructions because its not too contrary to your interests... no such thing as lan-lan one... Mr. Green

u think men stoopid ah? u give them stoopid instructions they will twang one what... and people i've worked with don't always see area cleaning as too contrary to our self-interests... we hate dirty enviornments.

HUH? I didn't know your mum will complain to MINDEF when u fall sick.

u're joking man... some parents will even write letters to M.Ps if their son encounter the slightest problem in camp...

Hmm... don't tell me you have never given extras to disobedient soldiers?

chey... who never kena extras in NS before...

CORRECT. The key phrase is "to provide its soldiers". Not the other way round. We are not supposed to clean up toliets used by other superior beings (we all know WHO are they) since everybody has the responsbility to maintain the common area CLEAN.

this is one point i agree with lah... orcifers anyhow use toilet, never help to maintain... sometimes really quite fed up lah...

mfscrewu SG

10cm

For your info, the unit which I am in, the specialists and men share the same bunk so as to foster espirt de corp. As for officers, they do have their own bunk and they do keep it clean. The reason is in discipline. If you don't have the discipline to keep your area clean, then how can you be expect to maintain discipline in operational time. In any organisation, there will be bad sheep, but don't assume that one bad officer or specialist equal to the whole organisation is full of them. And again for your info, my OC often order stand by bunk for officers, specialists and man once every month.

No one is arguing who has a sense of belonging when cleaning toilet. It is the bloody refusal to do area cleaning because the soldier is lazy to do it that irks me. Who doesn't do area cleaning during his stinct in NS?

No, I will not shoot the soldier that does not follow order with my M16 but with my carbine. And you did not even understand what I wrote, do you? I said charging an MG position as in attacking it not to take charge of it.

As what CX has pointed out, you will be surprised at what some parents will do to ensure their precious son does not go through what they perceive as tough training.

I did say provide the soldiers with cleaning equipment and ordered the soldiers to keep the bunk clean. Tell me is there any soldiers in any armed forces that do not perform area cleaning? If you can point that out, perhaps you can suggest it to Mindef. So what's the big deal in cleaning a toilet after someone use it? There is only 2 ways from what I can see, you either clean it and forget about it, or you clean it, continue to complain and be upset about it and still get to clean it again next time. I for one is not someone who spent my NS days grumbling about the toilet cleaning duties, there are far more better things for me to do.

I don't need your pity. In fact, I should be the one doing that to you afterall I enjoyed my NS days and still look forward to my ICT.

I am not an officer at all. I got my 2 stripes within 8 mths into NS. And after my 1st ICT, I got my 3rd stripe. And I still sleep with my platoon mates. There is still no dedicated quarters to specialists and man. So for all your guessing, you are hopelessly wrong. Remember assumptions is the mother of all f.u.c.k-ups.

CX SG

well, as mentioned, it is not a big deal to clean it... but it IS a big deal if others do not respect your labour and use it without regard and consideration... THAT irks me, not the job of cleaning it itself.

this is especially sickening if those who dirty it are some screwed up NSF orcifer... those types, really... will end up getting shot by their men in times of war...

mfscrewu SG

Originally posted by CX:

well, as mentioned, it is not a big deal to clean it... but it [b]IS a big deal if others do not respect your labour and use it without regard and consideration... THAT irks me, not the job of cleaning it itself.

this is especially sickening if those who dirty it are some screwed up NSF orcifer... those types, really... will end up getting shot by their men in times of war...
[/b]

I do appreciate it when my mates does the toilet cleaning duties. However, sad to say, there will always be that asshole you mentioned who does not recognise and appreciate the labour and effort in maintaining the toilet. Then again life is sometime like that, just take it in your stride and move on. Someone can grumble, spit, curse and swear but when there is a standby, that person still have to clean it.

I met some really screwed up officers and my team did got back at them during their navex. Just send them going around in LCK. There are however some officers who take care of their men. My coy 2IC and PC are some of them. To them, if the men don't get to rest, they likewise don't rest.

10cm SG

[quote]Originally posted by mfscrewu:

In any organisation, there will be bad sheep, but don't assume that one bad officer or specialist equal to the whole organisation is full of them.

Precisely, and please don't assume that one good officer or specialist you see represents the whole lot. We all know how SAF works.

And again for your info, my OC often order stand by bunk for officers, specialists and man once every month.

Mine OC did THIS ROUTINE also. 4 hours for the men and 20 minutes for the specialist.

No one is arguing who has a sense of belonging when cleaning toilet. It is the bloody refusal to do area cleaning because the soldier is lazy to do it that irks me. Who doesn't do area cleaning during his stinct in NS?

I have been cleaning the toilet for bloody 2 and half years my dear friend. Not because I am damn fxxx up. But because I am a men. We woke up every morning at 6am to do our area cleaning but our superiors woke up at 7.30am to do the inspection. Fair? You tell me.

No, I will not shoot the soldier that does not follow order with my M16 but with my carbine. And you did not even understand what I wrote, do you? I said charging an MG position as in attacking it not to take charge of it.

Sorry I don't. And I apologise for my mistake.

As what CX has pointed out, you will be surprised at what some parents will do to ensure their precious son does not go through what they perceive as tough training.

Further to what you have said before, please don't assume every (or even majority) f the parents is like that. We are not living in the 60's where parents actually sent their son away to China to escape from NS.

(To be continued...)[/b]

sillyme SG

you never see kungfu movies meh?? all the shaolin monks start with sweeping before they start practising the real thing.. Laughing

Seshiro SG

Err...abit out of point, but I get what you are driving at.
Let's face it...the army is all about rementation and dscipline. By taking good care of one's quarters is a very obvious reflection of one's self discipline and level of responsibility. It does not matter if other people from other bunks don't do it. I mean hey, if you keep your place clean you benefit from it, not others. In case the rest of you haven't noticed, nothing is fair in this world.

With reference to what sillyme has pointed out, as a martial artist myself for 4 years, the senseis and the seniors will always ask me to do things that I don't like or I felt that wasn't part of my training. Of course during the time I always complain it's not fair and stuff like taht. Later I found that what I was going through then, was what they went through before and what my juniors are going through now. So the cycle goes on...

Before you start lamenting how unfair your specs or officers have been treating you all. Think back and try to understand that they were recruits before before they became what they are now. They too went through the same 'ordeal' you did. So please stop complaining for some of you here. I said my piece Neutral

CX SG

Exactly man! some of us have heard stories or have personal memories of the låV of SISPEC ok!

and the uncles at the kopitiam near my place always complaining about the Israelis and the notorious "tiger" enciks in their camps last time...

now u have young punk chicken-$hits dissing area cleaning... sigh...

Seshiro SG

Relax lah CX...Kids like us nowadays live the comfy life not many will be as crazy as me to go overseas to do martial arts and suffer...gone are the days moping the big dojo floor with only a piece of rag and water... Mr. Green

mfscrewu SG

10cm

I have never assume that SAF is full of good officers or specs. I acknowledge the fact that there are screwballs in there. But you on the other hand, seems to crap on continuously about the bad side, did you look at it objectively?

As to your OC conducting standby for your coy, good for him to do so. As to how he conduct his standby, it is his own decision and since I was not there, I can't comment on how he did it. He could be one of those screwball, and too bad for you.

Again, I am not interested about the fairness of your superiors and enlisted personel. I am pointing out to you a soldier's refusal to do area cleaning that irks me.

I did not assume that all parents are like that. I said there are some of them. Since when have I assume that all parents are like that? Please make sure you read through what I posted PROPERLY before you make any assumptions. Seems to me you never do.

BrUtUs SG

to me i c area cleaning as a form of discipline… tis makes u take gd care in watever u do… be it your bunk or the toilet used. if everything is done by commercial contractors everybody will be dependent on them jz like they depend on their mum or maid to do all the dirty work at hm. in saf it is suppose to teach servicemen to be independent and not be another king away from home…

MYPR SG

You mean a smart person who is able to strike out on his own and get an overseas degree in 2 years will not know how to take care of himself and his living surroundings? Do you need 2 years or more to learn how to clean up your own area then? Well, i don't. I'm used to living out alone and taking care of everything since started working in singapore alone when I was 20 years old. And do you need to go in the SAF to learn how to respect and considerate for your fellow man and goddamn Humility learning all the 4 letter words e.g. fu*k you, CB etc? Well, i don't but learn it all in my workplace.

And mind you, what logic are you talking? It is the responsible of the government to take care of the street since they are paid to do it and not yours. You can try throwing rubbish around in singapore, but do it and don't get caught or else the government will get richer. you can cross the road anywhere you like, do it but don kill yourself of course.

It is no wonder the "No U-Turn Syndrome" theory applies only to Singaporean who are so obedient and conforming to whatever instructed without thinking. Well, maybe that's how the singapore government want to shape its citizen. To be the obedient best worker to attract foreign company.

NathanG5 SG

aiyo..cool it dude..i noe u have some problem wif the SAF..guess u been tekan too hard eh?
poor thing..come let Uncle Nathan sayang u..i give u welfare ok? welfare..i noe u smart lah..can learn how to clean up ur area by urself...so kiang gd boy....tot u dun like SAF but how come u use SAF 8thcore value as an example in ur last paragraph? "Do Anything u want But dun get caught" Laughing

MYPR SG

I think you are being childish with these kind of remark. As for what SAF 8th core value??? Is there such a value in SAF, i not the least interested.

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