M777 vs. Pegasus

last SG · 2008-11-16T13:38:46+00:00

Cost,benefits and risksAll decision shall base on these factors.

lionnoisy SG

hey Mods !

lionnoisy seems to be suanning you guys for not "supporting" his position. alleging that it is wrong to take a pro-singaporean position.

contempt of court can be recontextualized into contempt of MOD ?

@lionnoisy

wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah

and then repeat again

can you realize one thing ?we are not interested in your

nuisances.

Few versions of M777.SG Pegasus was fielded 2 years ahead of M777.

Who say we are copy cat?

BOQ

The M777A1 is a version of the M777 fitted
with onboard electronics, giving it selflocating,
self-laying and digital communications
similar to the M109A6 Paladin. The
M777A1 was unconditionally approved
for use by Army units in January 2007. The
USMC began fielding the M777 in January
2007 with the Army’s 2-11 Field Artillery,
becoming operational with the M777A1 in
January 2007. The new M777A2 adds the
ability to fire the Excalibur precisionguided
munition.EOQ

http://www.ausa.org/publications/armymagazine/armyarchive/October2008/Documents/04_Weapons_Ground.pdf

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Is it very trouble some to install and take down the sight before n

after the firing?Can anyone confirm this and if so,what is the reasons?

I always use the progress of handphone and computers

to compare with military gears,especially non--Singaporean stuff.

The foreign guys can stand for few decades old weapons stuff

and dunt improve it.But i know it is a very very...very long story.

I think HP and compter have changed for 5 to 10 generations

in the past 30 years.

BTW,how long it take to instal and remove it?

gd4u SG

UR VERY HOLY STK pdf product file says it is SP ...
Why, cannot ar ???

(FUCK, I am turning into another lion noob)

lionnoisy SG

UR VERY HOLY STK pdf product file says it is SP ...

Why, cannot ar ???(FUCK, I am turning into another lion noob)

ST says

Pegasus 155mm 39 Calibre Light Weight Howitzer

A light weight 155mm 39 calibre howitzer, the Pegasus SLWH has self-propelled capability and is air- transportable by a C130 and CH47.

Did ST say it is a SPH?No.This is a towed gun with

self-propelled capability.

I wander why u guys so insist that Pegasus shall be a SP gun.

I just compare small small items with M 777 and dare not

to declare which one is better in OVERALL.

If u find anythings interesting about Pegasus,good or bad,

u can also share here.Why not?

So long the stuff can save the ass of SAF,I dunt care

u call it black cat or white.Right?

@@@@@@@@

But if u look at from another angle,u would think

a engine APU (the Auxiliary Power Unit)

shall be installed to add feasibilty to the towed gun.

U will tell me the cost lah,engine may break down,more weight lah

etc.Ok Ok.Pl tell me what are the plus points---

----assist to load the shells(Thats why Pegasus can shoot 2 /min for 30 min)

..........(no rod ramming is needed ,by 2 men!!)

-----set and reset the gun

---faster in dis/emplacement( a matter of live and death)

---better manuever in narrow terrain(urban)

---communications and sight setting.

The key is can the plus points warrant the installations.

Dunt tell me one side of the coin.Look at another side.

Weigh the pros and cons.Cost(capital and running costs,)

training,etc.

Decision is an art.There are too many smart guys just look

at one side of the coin.Which rule in books of army say

no engine shall be installed in towed gun?

Men shall not be bounded by stupid rules,if there is any.

It is just human bound by themselves.

When there is no towed gun with an engine in the inventory,

no one dare to propose one.What are the down sides if u instal

a engine in a towed gun?

Do u think it is fun to ram the shell into the chamber?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqmeobCFJtY&feature=related

look at them.I cant believe it is 2008.

@@@@@@@@@

BTW,SAF has stopped rod ramming the shell since 20 years ago in FH 88!!

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Singapore-Technologies-Kinetics-155-mm-FH-88-gun-howitzer-Singapore.html

Primer feeding and extraction is automatic using a 12-round magazine. A flick rammer is used with power derived from an independent power pack.

lionnoisy SG

vertical position and sight

http://myguidon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8046

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xGAWwdYcVlI/SM5Ny4KHtrI/AAAAAAAADJg/_DtsZyDRnjs/s1600-h/usa2.jpg

http://www.armchair-travel.com/military/M777.mpg

slide the play indicator to see 360 degree of the gun.

i think u need to instal 2 components of the sight brfore u fire!

lionnoisy SG

UR VERY HOLY STK pdf product file says it is SP ...

Why, cannot ar ???FUCK, I am turning into another lion noob)

I think i find a solution.Can u help write to Janes and ask them set up

a section called

the TIG stands for Towed Independent Gun.

Is it a good idea?Then we no need to argue if Pegasus is towed or not.

Just call it TIG!!

BTW--Besides Pegasus,Soltam TIG,what else are designed for long distance

Towed but can be SP for short distance.

pl read

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Soltam-Systems-155-mm-TIG-gun-howitzer-family-Israel.html

remember go to

www.janes.com/articles/ and wait.

The doors of Janes are open for u now!!

Shotgun SG

The Self-Propelled Howitzer is meant to keep up with the rapid advance of armored formations in combat. If it can't keep up with the typical speeds of armored advance, it cannot be considered a self-propelled howitzer.

The Pegasus I believe is ordinarily towed. The ability to move itself allows the gun to positioned quickly without requiring the tonner driver to somehow maneuver the gun to the approximate position and having artillerymen set up by hand. IMO, it just hastens up the process which the pegasus can be deployed.

Another consideration is that the Pegasus is supposed to support guardsmen with their type of operation where it is required to be flown in. Now, can't expect to always have the Pegasus to be flown in together with a tonner right? So it requires some form of innate ability to move about.

As I've mentioned in the previous post. The Marines are pretty happy with the M777A2. Doesn't really have anything to do with our Pegasus.

lionnoisy SG

As I've mentioned in the previous post. The Marines are pretty happy with the M777A2. Doesn't really have anything to do with our Pegasus.

jjj

Pl tell me where did u get the info that USMC are pretty happy with M777A2?

2.All pure Towed gun,like M 777A2,inserted in front line, will become a sitting duck in the initial period

Suppose u are CO of a battery of few M777A2 and u are inserted in a front

line position by Chinook.After u fire,u already expose your position,right?

Do u expect any counter fire?Yes or No.It depends.

There are two possibility of course:

A.NO--U dunt expect if u are in Afghan etc locations where your enemy dunt have

anti artillery radar and gun.But they can rush to your position by whatever means.

B.Yes----u have to expect counter fire if your enemy is like SAF,right?

(This is jus a example,pl cool down)So,as a CO ,wat will u do

when u expect counter fire is on the way and u dunt have 5 tonner etc

to tow u away?u will agrue how come there are no towing tonner?

I have said u are inserted into a front line position.Do u expect

your HQ can guess where to insert u before hand and arrange 5 tonners

waiting for your guys there?

This is a war or a conflict where no one in War Room can tell

what will happen in next hour!!This is not a war game!!

But if u insist that the 5 tonner are already waiting for your battery

then i dunt think we have a intelligent discussion here.

How about 5 tonners rushing to your gun position?

Well.It depend how far away u are inserted.

So,from the moments u fire to the counter fire reach your position,

i think u have only 10 mins at most to A> dump your gun and run away

OR B> u prey next to your guns!!

Since u need 3 mins to displace M 777A2,the 5 tonner have to reach

your position in 7 mins!!Can they do that?

All pure Towed gun,like M 777A2,inserted in front line, will become a sitting duck in the initial period

mnnn

nnnn

lionnoisy SG

The danger of a Pure towed gun inserted by Chinnok etc

U will be landed in open land where your position will be exposed

to enemy OP and other sensors,UAV etc But u cant move without

5 tonners.A sniper can give u lot of troubles.

The benefits of a towed gun but SP capabaility

After it is inserted,it can remain in the position or SP to a better position

with cover by trees,terrain or buildings and then fire.

After it fire,it should move to a new position to excape counter fire.

Dunt under estimate your enemy!!U are not in Afhgan!!

Flexsibility and HIGHER SURVIABILITY are the plus.

@@@@@@@@@@@@

APU will add some cost and weight.But the benefits seem

worth the troubles!!

lionnoisy SG

Why did Australia set a special low threshold for weight of SPH at max 5040 kg?

Artillery Replacement - 105mm & 155mm
LAND 17
Last updated/reviewed: 18 Apr 08

I read JDW 03 Oct 2007 (by Julian Kerr) that by setting this requirement,the

only possible contender is M 777!!

Besides,I get this article and i think this is the one i have seen in hard copy:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=63753.0;wap2

Australia turns down surplus Dutch PzH2000 howitzers

Julian Kerr JDW Correspondent
Sydney
The Australian Defence Force ( ADF) has declined a Dutch offer of 18 Kraus-Maffei Wegmann PzH2000 155 mm self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) to meet a major part of the ADF’s Land 17 artillery replacement programme.

The Royal Netherlands Army has declared 18 of the 57 PzH2000s it has on order as surplus to requirements. The guns, offered to Australia at what is understood to be an advantageous price, have yet to be built........

The Land 17 requirement for up to four batteries (35 platforms) of lightweight towed 155 mm howitzers has specified a maximum gun weight of 5,040 kg to allow transportation by a ballistically protected Boeing CH-47 heavy-lift helicopter. This is understood to leave the BAE Systems M777A2 ultra lightweight howitzer, weighing 3,745 kg, as the only contender. The M777A2 features hardware and software upgrades enabling it to fire the XM922 Excalibur extended-range precision unitary munition.

i dunt know if Oz intend to transport the new gun internally or externally.

The payload of CH-47 is about 11,000 kg.Does Oz want to transport

two gun in one sortie internally?Can two new guns transportered externally

in one sortie?

If two new guns can be transported in one sortie,then the low weight

requirement is reasonable.

But this special requirement will vitrually keep all other LWH

out of the tender.This will make Oz leave with one choice!!

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In procurement,shall u just base on one factor and leave

u with one choice?If this weight factor is so important?

I dunt know.Pl tell me.

mnnnn

SBS n SMRT SG

Erm......i think the best is to try out M777 and Pegasus in a battle if you would want the most fair way

Battle One:

M777 shot at Pegasus, see Pegasus can counter

Battle Two:

Pegasus shot at M777, see M777 can counter

counter means that is it counter-battery ability as well as move to next position

In addition, remember M777 is designed for US, US have a lot of weapon, they dun care a f****** M777 is been damaged, so they could made do with such a make

However, Pegasus is designed for SG, SG cannot lose a Pegasus like USMC did for a M777.

So both of them win in their own limits

OT: Lion, u are really noisy

lionnoisy SG

http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/hercules.aspx

http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/globemaster.aspx---72,500 kg

Payload of C 130 in RAAF is 14,000 kg.good enough to deploy 2 guns

of 6000 kg each plus 1000 kg ammo for each gun!!

LWH are most likely for quick insertion by heli.

Unfotunalely,there is no heli in RAAF !!

@@@@@@

So if oz to deploy proposed new LWH by either C 130 or C 17,

they can afford a little more heavy LWH!!

SBS n SMRT SG

http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/hercules.aspx

http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/globemaster.aspx---72,500 kg

Payload of C 130 in RAAF is 14,000 kg.good enough to deploy 2 guns

of 6000 kg each plus 1000 kg ammo for each gun!!

LWH are most likely for quick insertion by heli.

Unfotunalely,there is no heli in RAAF !!

@@@@@@

So if oz to deploy proposed new LWH by either C 130 or C 17,

they can afford a little more heavy LWH!!

They can buy heli mah.........