M777 vs. Pegasus

last SG · 2008-11-16T13:38:46+00:00

Cost,benefits and risksAll decision shall base on these factors.

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

What this fucker does not understand is that different countries have different requirements. The M777 is expected to not fight on level ground but up on mountain sides. It is a true light infantry howitzer with a small footprint.

On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.

But nada, this moron will never understand.

sgstars SG

On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.

But nada, this moron will never understand.

he wont ! thats because he cant get it into his lion skull.

hmm, ive never heard of why M777 was designed for high altitude combat on mountains. why is that so ?

you comparing them in the context of the indian army tender ?

sgstars SG

LOL moron lion, tell me, how do counter-battery artillery fire and radar detect the M777 before m777 fire ?

in case you realize, what is the range of arty ? you mean USMC or US army commanders are retarded to enough to site an artillery battery within range of counter battery fire ?

*yawn* in case you havent realized, pegasus APU is more for autoloading rather than moving the pegasus around.

use a brain will you ? pegasus APU has a speed of 12km/H. ok, lets say pegasus fire on enemy position, shell takes 15 mins to reach the enemy position. enemy counter battery radar tracks the shell, pinpoints the pegasus firing position.

ASSUMING no time is needed to pack the pegasus and assuming that the terrain is complete flat ground and the top speed of 12km/h is achieved (which isnt possible) and assuming that the enemy counter battery fire takes 20 mins to fire and for the shells to hit the position

u realize that your pegasus has only moved 4km ? you realize that if the enemy has a MLRS fire battery dedicated to counter battery fire that would be the end of the entire pegasus artillery battery ? you realize even a regular artillery battery would be able to obliterate that grid square ?

you realize that studying map terrain and extrapolating from the approximate fire position, the enemy is able to destroy , block or cut off the pegasus regiment from any evacuation point or resup point ?

you realize you just SELF-PWNED ?

and yes, i think we should all take a 286 or 1st gen mobile phone and throw it at your head. you arent using it moron. you deserve it for talking crap like this .

and please answer this qn :

wtf is a double clutch landrover ?

wtf is a queene ?

wtf u still dont know the difference between a BVS10 viking and the BVS10 MKII viking and the Bronco ?

wtf are you ?

____________________________________________________________

i am still waiting for an answer ?

dont hum ji and hide. answer my questions. why ? kena pwned in logic u simply spam old nonsense is it ?

lionnoisy SG

On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.

But nada, this moron will never understand.

kkk

Can u move a M 777 up or down a HDB car park ramp,with the 8 to 10

gunners?Do u think on mountain sides (ask u say) will post a more challenge

situation for u ,if not impossible, to move your 3175 kg M 777?

FYI,a 1.6 to 1.8 liter Japanse saloon weigh 1200 to 1400 kg.

That mean ,with 10 guys,u have to move a weight of 3 saloon cars

up and down on mountain sides?Dunt forget it is a rough terrain,with rocks

on the ground.I think u can if u are on flat and smooth parade ground.

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i suggest u ask 10 guys to push a lorry up a HDB carpark ramp.

If u can,then come back and tell us.

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Weigh is not a problem if u have a APU--engine to move the gun.

But it is a problem if u are powerless and very light say,3175 kg!!

If u dare to tell me u can push 3175 kg up and down

a HDB car park ramp with 10 men,then i salute u.

If u cant,then dunt think about move a M 777 in mountain sides.

http://www.toyotasingapore.com.sg/cars/new_cars/corolla_asia/fullspecs.asp

lionnoisy SG

1.LOL moron lion, tell me, how do counter-battery artillery fire and radar detect the M777 before m777 fire ?

in case you realize, what is the range of arty ? you mean USMC or US army commanders are retarded to enough to site an artillery battery within range of counter battery fire ?

2.*yawn* in case you havent realized, pegasus APU is more for autoloading rather than moving the pegasus around.

you realize you just SELF-PWNED ?

and yes, i think we should all take a 286 or 1st gen mobile phone and throw it at your head. you arent using it moron. you deserve it for talking crap like this .

and please answer this qn :

wtf is a double clutch landrover ?

wtf is a queene ?

wtf u still dont know the difference between a BVS10 viking and the BVS10 MKII viking and the Bronco ?

wtf are you ?

____________________________________________________________

i am still waiting for an answer ?

dont hum ji and hide. answer my questions. why ? kena pwned in logic u simply spam old nonsense is it ?

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To your Q1:

If USMC commander know the ability of counter fire,he has a crystal ball.

In war or conflict,u dunt know what u dunt know.

Q2----APU is for short range movement and loading shell.

i read FH 88 or 2000 can move SP 60 km without refilling.

U say assume no time to pack....

With the APU,u just press few butons and let the machine do the job.

It take less than 3 mins to emplace and displace.

If the time is not enogh,then it is too bad becos it is the best

we give to SAF.If Pegasus cant do fast enough with machine,

how about M 777 which is powerless?

Pegasu shoot and scoot can increase the chance to survive.

I am sure it is much better than sitting duck M 777,before

towing facilities arrive.

I dunt know if MLRS or heli to block Pegasus and kill the battery.

The CO shall put a reasonable protection blanket for them.

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

he wont ! thats because he cant get it into his lion skull.

hmm, ive never heard of why M777 was designed for high altitude combat on mountains. why is that so ?

you comparing them in the context of the indian army tender ?

I'm basing this on the fact that the US Army uses the gun to fight in Afghanistan, a country well known for hilly areas that are pretty inaccessible to most vehicles. In fact the gun has been great in Afghanistan, offering firepower for the infantry units fighting on the hill sides.

soon its xmas SG

Can u move a M 777 up or down a HDB car park ramp,with the 8 to 10

gunners?

i hope u didn't mean they have to push it using hands. cuz that is plain retarded to even bring up and mention

lionnoisy SG

Yes,the M 777 is very good for location where

u dunt expect any counter fire.Counter fire means from artiller,armour,

infantry and aircrafts etc.If u heli a M 777 ,u will expose it for counter fire

with immobility for an initial period!!

lionnoisy SG

On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.

But nada, this moron will never understand.

In a hilly areas,Will u choose a movable but heavier Pegasus or

a immovable M 777?u need a Land Rover or a truck to tow it.

Can the truck move in the location,not to mention to tow M 777?

Can u move M 777 with 8 men in a hilly areas by brutal force?

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If few men can push a car up HDB Car park ramp and

pull it down a ramp under control,then 10 men have a chance to move

M 777 in hilly area.Bear in mind the hill may be more steep and more

rough than HDB CP!!

lionnoisy SG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777_howitzer

The gun max traverse is 23 degree right or left.

Lets say u have to turn the gun outside this range,say 30 degree,

can u move the gun without much sweat?

U have to operate a hand pump to jack up the wheels.

Then u have to move this about 3200 kg monster for few feet!!

Then u have to operate hand pump to put down the wheels etc.

Remember it is a powerless howeritze!!

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

SO.. .let me get this straight Lionnoisy.

Say you are up on a hill top. PRetty steep. So what good again is a small jeep with a gun on the back? ARe you suggesting the jeep should "run off the cliff"?

Why do you think they have a helicopter near by? If the US Army wants fire mobility, they would haul up a M109 Paladin. WTF do they need a M777? An M777 is a specialised firesupport unit that is air transportable and even more mobile than your "much vaunted Pegasus" which needs a larger helicopter. If they move it, they do so with a helicopter. Never mind that the SAF probably doesn't have that many helicopters anyway for this sort of thing.

sgstars SG

To your Q1:

If USMC commander know the ability of counter fire,he has a crystal ball.

In war or conflict,u dunt know what u dunt know

tell me lionnoisy ? do you even understand the concept of military intelligence ? satellite recon, UAV ? eyeball mk1 ? SOF ?

information is power. guard that well. that is why the USMC or US army commander has things like Blue force tracker and an unrivalled SITREP command with access to multiple intelligence assets.

its clearly obvious you dont know what u dont know. and the joke is on you. u dont even know what u dont know you are blundering into.

Q2----APU is for short range movement and loading shell.

i read FH 88 or 2000 can move SP 60 km without refilling.

U say assume no time to pack....

With the APU,u just press few butons and let the machine do the job.

It take less than 3 mins to emplace and displace.

If the time is not enogh,then it is too bad becos it is the best

we give to SAF.If Pegasus cant do fast enough with machine,

how about M 777 which is powerless?

Pegasu shoot and scoot can increase the chance to survive.

I am sure it is much better than sitting duck M 777,before

towing facilities arrive.

big mistake. u realized that your information absolutely wrong ? FH88 and FH2000 are not self propelled. rely on truck or vehicle to tow.

what nonsense are you talking now ?

3 mins not time is it ? what happens when APU fail ? what happens when APU damaged ? pegasus becomes like you ? big, high profile but absolutely USELESS ? giant piece of metal crap ? (in your case mental crap) ?

shoot and scoot ? dont make me laugh. you clearly demonstrate no knowledge about artillery operational doctrine and so kindly STFU. u think its possible to shoot and scoot in 3 mins in that kinda timing under operational conditions ? you think your terrain gentle and forgiving on you ?

you think every battle is fought on perfectly flat land ground like tennis court ? u shoot i shoot ?

think again and think hard. because you obviously havent done it. APU isnt used for shoot and scoot. its more for its autoloading fuctions than anything else. the APU only serves as a driving motor in a secondary backup capacity in case it cannot be moved by transport vehicles.

m777 cannot use ATV or humvee to pull ? m777 supported by how many helicopter assets ? m777 can be lifted by what range of helicopter assets in USMC or US army inventory ? CH53 ? blackhawk ? MV 22 ospery ? CH-47D ?

Pegasus can be lifted by how many assets in RSAF inventory ? please answer this question. remember that Pegasus is a specialized product to overcome specialized needs that pose a operational liability in manpower scarce SAF

I dunt know if MLRS or heli to block Pegasus and kill the battery.

The CO shall put a reasonable protection blanket for them.

what kinda fucked up logic is this ? so pegasus can have resonable protection blanket and USMC and US army M777A1 and A2 batteries cannot have reasonable protection blanket ?

MLRS has a massive kill zone. with the evolving trend of GLMRS, there's an even higher likelihood of percision counter battery fire designed to destroy enemy batteries.

and do you even understand the concept of protection blanket ? CO is concerned with Local area protection blanket.

answer the question now, how can a local protection blanket (1~2 km) protect against counter-battery fire with 40km range for regular artillery and approximately >70 km for GLMRS / MLRS batteries ?

YAWN lionnoisy. its christmas day. stop crapping. merry christmas idiot. i m dead certain there's a lump of coal in your stocking for all your idiocity here.

lionnoisy SG

SO.. .let me get this straight Lionnoisy.

Say you are up on a hill top. PRetty steep. So what good again is a small jeep with a gun on the back? ARe you suggesting the jeep should "run off the cliff"?

wow.u dunt know M 777 is a replacement for M 109 towed gun?

M 777 is not to replace Paladin which is a armoured SPH.

Dunt mix up a towed gun and a armoured SPH Paladin.The latter will be replaced

by NLOS--Cannon(under development!!)!!

Do u think SSPH Primus--in production n services -- can do the jobs of NLOS-Cannon??

http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ByCapabilities/index.htm

NLOS Cannon---what a name which can scare u ,but not me!!

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M777 Light weight is for easy transport!!

So,can u expect a tonner there to wait for M 777?

There fore,M 777 is immovable before towing facilities arrive,

be it a tonner or horses or donkeys or men!!

The M777 was designed and developed by BAE Systems, and is a joint program between the Army and Marine Corps to replace the M198 towed howitzer.

http://www.baesystems.com/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2005/press_20012005.html

lionnoisy SG

the big brothers of M 777 (in operation 2005) and Pegasus

(unveiled 2005)are M 198 (in operation 1979)and FH 2000 (unveiled 1995)respectively.

If u compare the two big brothers,u will see FH 2000 get many unique

features.From setting up gun,setting elevation and traverse,ramming shell,

extract remainder after firing etc.all are assisted by machine.

While M 198 are done by men.

After trials, the XM198 was standardised as the M198 and production commenced at Rock Island Arsenal in 1978 with first production weapons completed in July 1978.

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pl watch the videos at

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_websites/topics/3g/Videos.html

Mar 07 -
King of the Battlefield - The Singapore Artillery

pl pay attention to the operation of gun...

and compare the youtubes of M 198 and 777.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF1lKU39qDA&feature=related

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u can see FH 2000 (13,200 kg)is much heavier than M 198(7160 kg).

But the former get power to move around and to assist the operation

of the gun.It can escape counter fire on SP!!

The latter,though much lighter,pay a heavy price for powerless!!

So,Yankees get a tradition of being light in pure towed gun(

NO SP at all) but much lighter!!Is it worth for being just light,

but foregoing the benefits of fitted with a APU?

ref

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Singapore-Technologies-Kinetics-155-mm-52-calibre-FH2000-artillery-system-Singapore.html

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/155-mm-howitzer-M198-United-States.html

http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/003131.html

lionnoisy SG

30 years has passed.Yankees still have to rod ramming the projectile

of M 198 and M 777, by men!!

http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/indirect/m198.html

below--top M 198 and bottom M 777.

FYI.M 777 is one of the stuff in Future Combat Sys!!

Future??

lionnoisy SG

if u dunt give SP capability to M 777,u need give another platform to move the gun!!

Supacat Portee vehicle

i agree if u tow the M 777 in long range,u need a tonner or the above.

But for short range,i prefer SP!!

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i have to say sorry to Sg Ty again and again,u are damn right that M 777 can fly.

http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/003131.html

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u can drive a Pegasus away free and easy with one guy!!

Inserted by heli,hide,shoot,scoot,hide again....repeat..

No sitting duck in SAF!!But Pegasus!!

lionnoisy SG

the APU drive the Pegasus.Nvm the wetght of the gun!

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_websites/topics/Weapons/slwh/multimedia.html#pegasus

soon its xmas SG

@lion

m777 was not meant to do the job the pegasus can simply becuz the US thinks they have other ways to get around it. they lowered the weight so that it can be towed quicker than the m198 and can be carried by heli. with that, they were happy enough.

btw US believes the tonners should hang around the deployed arty pieces.

if your argument is about how much better the gun become after automation, if it does, pls make it clear.

sgstars SG

tell me lionnoisy ? do you even understand the concept of military intelligence ? satellite recon, UAV ? eyeball mk1 ? SOF ?

information is power. guard that well. that is why the USMC or US army commander has things like Blue force tracker and an unrivalled SITREP command with access to multiple intelligence assets.

its clearly obvious you dont know what u dont know. and the joke is on you. u dont even know what u dont know you are blundering into.

big mistake. u realized that your information absolutely wrong ? FH88 and FH2000 are not self propelled. rely on truck or vehicle to tow.

what nonsense are you talking now ?

you think every battle is fought on perfectly flat land ground like tennis court ? u shoot i shoot ?

what kinda fucked up logic is this ? so pegasus can have resonable protection blanket and USMC and US army M777A1 and A2 batteries cannot have reasonable protection blanket ?

MLRS has a massive kill zone. with the evolving trend of GLMRS, there's an even higher likelihood of percision counter battery fire designed to destroy enemy batteries.

and do you even understand the concept of protection blanket ? CO is concerned with Local area protection blanket.

answer the question now, how can a local protection blanket (1~2 km) protect against counter-battery fire with 40km range for regular artillery and approximately >70 km for GLMRS / MLRS batteries ?

YAWN lionnoisy. its christmas day. stop crapping. merry christmas idiot. i m dead certain there's a lump of coal in your stocking for all your idiocity here.

answer question please :)

i rebutt you and u dont dare answer me ? hello ? what nonsense is this ?

lionnoisy SG

tell me lionnoisy ? do you even understand the concept of military intelligence ? satellite recon, UAV ? eyeball mk1 ? SOF ?

information is power. guard that well. that is why the USMC or US army commander has things like Blue force tracker and an unrivalled SITREP command with access to multiple intelligence assets.

its clearly obvious you dont know what u dont know. and the joke is on you. u dont even know what u dont know you are blundering into.

big mistake. u realized that your information absolutely wrong ? FH88 and FH2000 are not self propelled. rely on truck or vehicle to tow.

what nonsense are you talking now ?

you think every battle is fought on perfectly flat land ground like tennis court ? u shoot i shoot ?

what kinda fucked up logic is this ? so pegasus can have resonable protection blanket and USMC and US army M777A1 and A2 batteries cannot have reasonable protection blanket ?

MLRS has a massive kill zone. with the evolving trend of GLMRS, there's an even higher likelihood of percision counter battery fire designed to destroy enemy batteries.

and do you even understand the concept of protection blanket ? CO is concerned with Local area protection blanket.

answer the question now, how can a local protection blanket (1~2 km) protect against counter-battery fire with 40km range for regular artillery and approximately >70 km for GLMRS / MLRS batteries ?

YAWN lionnoisy. its christmas day. stop crapping. merry christmas idiot. i m dead certain there's a lump of coal in your stocking for all your idiocity here.

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