RSAF search for new fighter to replace the F-5s

last SG · 2007-10-03T11:56:16+00:00

Is SG F-15 body frame old or new?

Arthas79 SG

still same operator not counted....i am saying NEW COUNTRY to join the MUD HEN CLUB

Perhaps, I did not elaborate enough. Oh bother...

Listen dude. Scroll upwards a bit and you will discover that you rejected the possibility of the Japanese buying the F-15s. So, here is a report which says that they are being offered the F15s and Superbugs by thier benefactor; the US. So there you are. Another example of your speculations. Mr. Green

duotiga83 SG

you dont analyze. you just literally take the news word by word

my 30cts

Arthas79 SG

quote:
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Originally posted by Arthas79:

So, you were stating your opinions lah. Not facts. Basically speculating lah.
And what`s this about Australia? Add that to the list of speculations.

I need to make some coffee before i write a couple of essays. So, you sort this one out yeah. be back later

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so big guy....tell me who needs strategic strike capabilities in which coutry since you are smarter than me?

Shocked Wha? Who? Australia? Yeah. They need that capability.

duotiga83 SG

but then they CHOSE F/A-18F to LEASED replacement of F-111 before F-35 come for $6 Billion

Arthas79 SG

Originally posted by Arthas79:

Perhaps, I did not elaborate enough. Oh bother...

Listen dude. Scroll upwards a bit and you will discover that you rejected the possibility of the Japanese buying the F-15s. So, here is a report which says that they are being offered the F15s and Superbugs by thier benefactor; the US. So there you are. Another example of your speculations.
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you dont analyze. you just literally take the news word by word

my 30cts

Lost for words are we? Ok. Lets take it step by step. You made a series of statements. You said they were facts. I said they were speculative. Afterall, they have not happened. Thereafter, you even proof that some of your points are more speculative by producing articles and links. So again. They are not facts as you insisted. Mr. Green

In this case, the US(thier big ally and someone who they are dependant upon for thier security) offers them F15s. Will they buy? Will the US twist Japan like it did Korea. Plausible.. but i am speculating here. Just like you were when you insisted that they will buy the typhoons. They might. I do not discount that fact. They might even buy both.

duotiga83 SG

State your reasoning for them to get both. Politcally n Economically

norm SG

North Korea will most likely buy the latest China Jian-10 fighter to shoot down the Japan Eurofighter Typhoon.

Arthas79 SG

[quote]but then they CHOSE F/A-18F to LEASED replacement of F-111 before F-35 come for $6 Billion

I know that. I thought you asked if they need a strategic strike capability. Yes. They do.

State your reasoning for them to get both. Politcally n Economically

Lol. Why dont you think about it since you seem to think that you are the only one analyzing here.

And by the way Duotiga, I have not lost sight of our little argument recently. You arguments were mostly speculative and not facts. Agree? Mr. Green

Shotgun SG

Noted: JASDF already operates F-15s.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the Japanese were to opt for F-15E/K/SG as well. With their defense agency escalated to a full ministry, we might see more "force projection" capability build up, as well as induction of more "offensive" capabilities, such as the Strike Eagle.

They need the capability to strike-long, strike-far. Most of their potential targets for strike requires them to fly over an expanse of water, hence a dual engine aircraft would be preferably. The Jap MoD would be more than happy to accept a Strike Eagle deal if they can get their hands on the F-22s as well.

Black Aces SG

Typhoons for Japan

Frankly, I believed this public announcement by the Japanese on interest in the Typhoon is purely politics or simply put as .... indirect pressure on the US to release the Raptors to Japan.

I would believe the true Japanese intent on the Typhoon if:

(1) The Public Tender for new Fighters was won by the Typhoon consortium, &
(2) The Contract (for Typhoons) is signed.

Remember, the Japanese have publicly discounted the Rafale on the ground that 'it is a difficult to maintain (of the Rafale)'....this I believe is more a refection of the no experience gained on maintaining/operating non-US fighters by the Japanese. Look, the Japanese are aware that the Americans will call them bluff if they mentioned Rafale but the Americans will stood up if the Typhoon is mentioned.

It will be just like after the Koreans had ordered the F-15K for their AF and a follow-on tender was announced, BAE and Dassault ignored this 2nd Tender as they suspected that the true Korean intent is to use their products to drive a bargaining chip with Boeing for price reduction for a F-15K follow-on order.

So, until I see the above 2 scenarios, I would take this Japanese public announcement on Typhoon as 'yah' yah'...

Arapahoe SG

there is a political wild card consideration into F-35. but against we are talking about few years away. If next year election move to democrats. The US state department will be more likely to take human right policy as part of friendly countries. Any arms deals and release of sophiscation to foreign country may depended upon its relationship. anyway many things could happen in between.

sgf SG

Is there a reason why we never got the F-18 initially instead of the F-16? Or why we didn’t consider the latest F-18 to replace the A4?

tripwire SG

F-18 were not cleared for export when we first sought to purchase the aircraft.. and we were only given the F-16/79.

later the thais ordered the F-16A/B block 15.. this open the path for us to upgrade our purchase to F-16A/B.

years later malaysia was given the green light to buy the F-18... this prompted the RSAF to reevaluate its purchase order.. by then we already got 4 F-16A and 4 F-16B.

RSAF pilots flew in the F-18C/D in the US.... after several flights and much deliberations... the RSAF decided that the F-16 is superior and better able to meet the needs of the RSAF.

following close behind the end of the trial flights of the F-18C/D.... the RSAF put in the first batch orders for the F-16C/D... much to the relief of its makers...

mcdonell douglas... the maker of the F-18 was pissed off... and with their wounded pride.. announced their decision to move their operation HQ from singapore to KL.... almost within the same month.

their excuse was their need to support the bigger customer malaysia with their handful of 8 F-18D.

later macdonel douglas went bust and got bought over by boeing... and as a result... boeing's regional HQ is still in KL because of wat happen in the past.

with singapore now fast becoming boeings biggest customer in this region.. from apache to F-15... lets see if the move back to singapore... to support their bigger customer.

Shotgun SG

Perhaps part of their considerations when evaluating the F-16 and the F/A-18s was the lack of BVRAAMs at that time.

Back then, we had access to Sidewinder P/L variants, which were essentially rear-aspect weapons. IIRC, Sparrow came later.

The close air combat capability of the F-16 was probably regarded as better than the Hornet's due to its high t/w ratio. Without BVRAAMs, the F-16 would be at and advantage against hornets without BVRAAMs.

duotiga83 SG

The advantage of Hornet at that time is slightly more agile & higher AoA than F-16 also

specialOps SG

Advantage of the F/A-18D:
- Better low-speed manoeverability
- Better reliability (Two-engine + made-for-carrier engineering)

Disadvantege:
- Expensive
- Higher maintenance (two-engine + more expensive parts)
- Can't share technology and "special equipment" with a special ally.

Advantage of F-16:
- Much better agility.
- Technology and equipment sharing with a special ally
- Low cost
- Outwardly more defensive rather than offensive weapon (Less likely for political hoo-haa)

Disadvantage:
- Very slightly lower payload
- Shorter range

Overall ... F-16 still more worthwhile buy.

sgf SG

Interesting. Thanks!

storywolf SG

F-16 shorter range ? Sorry from what i know F-16 have longer range then F-18 ! F-18 both engine - eat up fuel faster !! Also F-18C/D is so short on range that they have to use F-14 in Afangistan to do bombing instead which was a total embrassement , the super hornet F-18E/F increase in size to extend the range but give up some performance - still they lost in range of the F-16

F-18C/D
Ferry: 1,546 nautical miles (1777.9 miles/2,844 km

F-18EF
Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (2,070 mi, 3,330 km) (range without ordnance)

F-16
Ferry range: >3,200 mi (2,800 NM, 4,800 km)

specialOps SG

No leh...F/A-18D is listed at 1800nm, and F-16C/D at 1740nm.

tripwire SG

according to the US navy fact file...

the F-18D with 2 sidewinder and max external fuel tank has a ferry range of 1,546 nautical miles.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=1100&tid=1200&ct=1

while the F-16C/D block 52+ with max external fuel tank (no 600 gal tank, no CFT) has a ferry range of 2,450 nautical miles.

the 3,200 nautical miles quoted for F-16C/D is the ferry range of the F-16C/D or F-16I using CFT or CFT + 600 gal external tank.

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